Episode 3

[00:00:00] Jennifer-Lee: Welcome to Behind the Design from Yaletown to Andmar. This new podcast is gonna follow the journey of the new development Andmar inspired by Vancouver’s, Yaletown’s history, Andmar blends sustainability, innovation, and luxury. We have so many conversations about how a development like Andmar gets built, what is lease land and what is it gonna be like to live in this thriving community? So let’s get started.

[00:00:26] I am Jennifer-Lee and welcome to Behind the Design Yaletown to Andmar. Today we are talking the 15 minute city, somewhat a controversial topic, but we’ll get into that in a second. I gotta introduce my great guests. Again, we have Chief Derek Epp of the Tzeachten First Nation, and Mark Perry joining us again, one of the creators of Andmar here in Sardis, BC. Uh, really excited to have you both on. We’ve had Derek and Tracy on and Mark, we’ve had you with Tracy, but today we’re all together. We’re talking about this 15 minute city.

[00:01:01] For anyone that doesn’t know what it was, it was actually popularized by Carlos Moreno, a Franco Colombian urban planner and professor at the University of Paris, 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne. Um, he introduced, introduced this idea in 2016, and basically what I got from it is the fact that you would create a city that is 15 minutes that got things like work, education, healthcare, shopping, recreation within a roughly, I don’t think he’s holding you to the count of 15 minutes, but roughly in the vicinity of walk or bike or ride, um, or just being able to grocery shop and doing everything that you need to do. For me, what 15 minutes city means is something similar to that. I live in the South Granville area. I walk down, there’s coffee shops, there’s restaurants, there’s uh, shoppers, there’s everything in a distance to me. Doesn’t mean I can’t live that 15 minute area. It’s just way easier than me having to get in the car and grab everything. 

[00:02:05] So that being said, I wanna start with you guys. What does 15 minutes mean to you? 

[00:02:11] Mark Perry: Well, 15 minutes is all about, uh, being close to life needs really. I mean, uh, uh, the thought is, is that, uh, people of today are moving out of, uh, you know, out of the suburbia, kind of farms and, and acreages and, and moving somewhere close where they, where all the amenities, all the lifestyle needs are, are there. And, um, you know, and within that they get to be able to maybe not have a car. Um, maybe, you know, they, their, their belief is for sustainability and, and, and life is busy. And, uh, you know, they don’t want to have to drive that extra half an hour, um, back and forth when they can actually live, work, and play within their community. And, um, we, I think the numbers and the forecast show that, uh, um, cities will host, uh, 80% of our population in the future, um, because people will be moving closer because time is of the essence and it’s, and it’s a busier thing out there. They want to live close to work, play amenities, recreation, all that kind of stuff. 

[00:03:23] Chief Derek Epp: Yeah, I think Mark kind of summed it up really nicely and even, you know, it’s something in Chilliwack that we see a lot and why I’m so excited about this development and having that work, life, play balance that, uh, that you can really live in Andmar and, and you could, like I said, you could work there. You could, there’s a, a daycare going in the grocery store. You, you name it, it’s gonna be a perfect spot for that. But if you’re in the Chilliwack area, you understand there’s a lot of traffic issues as well. And congestion, getting across town, uh, you know, when I was a kid growing up, you, you get across town in 5, 10 minutes, uh, depending on the time of day, it could take you 30, 40, 45 minutes to get across town. So having this type of development in this area, which is, you know, I I mentioned on the previous podcast is one are the most exciting areas to live in, in Chilliwack. And I think that’s a lot to do with what, what Mark and the Andmar team is doing and what they’re bringing to this, this amazing area that we’re so fortunate to be able to work with people like Mark on.

[00:04:15] Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, I’m just thinking that this is something that more people should think about because I like, I grew up in New Westminster and the idea again for the 15 minute city wasn’t necessarily I have to do everything in 15 minutes, but like I lived in the Queens Park area, which is not close to any grocery stores or anything. Like you can’t just run out for milk or whatever. You have to get in a car and you gotta drive across the city. And you gotta find parking. And then again, it’s just not convenient. And at that time, when I grew up there, there wasn’t a lot of restaurants or anything. So everyone was leaving New Westminster to go into Burnaby and to Coquitlam for closer restaurants. So the fact that you guys are doing this with Chilliwack, I think this is something that a lot of municipalities are needing to do, but they’re starting to do it as well. I am seeing growth in New  Westminster. Of course, Burnaby has different hubs with Bren2od and um, Metrotown as well. So I think we’re kind of getting this idea of it. How do you feel that Mr is fitting into this kind of concept of a 15 minute city? 

[00:05:14] Mark Perry: Well, you know, I mean, it’s, uh, purposely planned. I mean, we, we, we, along with the  Tzeachten First Nation wanted to make sure that, uh it was all there. You know, there’s a transit station at the foot of our, of the property. Um, so you can go, if you’re a student, you can jump on a bus and go 10 minutes to get to Fraser Valley University, um, to do your schooling. You could jump on the bus and go to work. Um, or you can work within one of the businesses that are actually within, uh, within Andmar. So, you know, we’ve got the work thing, uh, we’ve got the work thing looked after. Uh, play, recreation, we’ve got within minutes. We’ve got hiking mountains, uh, we’ve got Cultus Lake, um, you know, all of these, all these little great places, Teapot Hill, all of these things that, that is, is all about recreation. And, and then we have amenities that where you’ve, you’ve got Nature’s Fare, um, you’ve got Pure Pharmacy, you’ve got daycare, all of this stuff creates the community. And when you are somebody that, uh, is, is looking to start a family life, to, um, you know, work while you’re going to college, all of these things are, are there within our community. And that’s something that, uh, um, you can’t do when you’re, you know, further out in Rosedale or, or with your in Yarrow or something like that. It’s just not there. So the beauty of it is move to Andmar. It’s all here. 

[00:06:43] Chief Derek Epp: Yeah. And it really compliments, I think I mentioned a bit of it yesterday as it really compliments a lot of the, um, existing developments that we have going on in the density that’s happening in and around this area. Uh, it’s no like, it, it was very obvious is why we chose when we went to the RFP to choose, chose Mark and the Andmar team to do this development. Their vision is, is, is exactly what, what was needed in this area. And with the amount of residential development, we needed this commercial aspect, this more high density, um, commercial, residential mix that really provided that, that ability for all the residents who are living in and around this area. When they come home, they can stay home. And that’s, you know, really what we’re trying to encourage. 

[00:07:23] Jennifer-Lee: Yeah. And it’s interesting to me that like just this idea of 15 minutes gets pushed back, or not even just the idea of 15 minutes. Like there’s other versions of it when people are trying to go into kind of more neighborhood areas and try to put different things like corner stores and things like that and bring it back, um, that there’s a lot of pushback on this type of stuff. And this is not just a thing that. Uh, BC it’s throughout Canada, throughout, uh, the world that gets some of this stuff too. But it’s funny to me because the whole idea of work at home remotely is getting, like, everyone’s getting upset because a lot of these, uh, businesses are making them go back to an office where they would have to commute 45 minutes. But then I said, but then you don’t want things in your area. So it’s, it just gets really confusing where it’s like people wanna work from home. And that’s kind of what you guys are doing. You’re giving the luxury that you can work from home. There’s gonna be also, I think, Mark, is there gonna be any co-working spaces or coffee shops where you can work at from as well?

[00:08:23] Mark Perry: Absolutely. There’s, uh, we’re gonna have a co-working in the, in the community area so that you’ll be able to hire, you know, the rooms for business meetings and, and, and board meetings and things like that. But one of the things, Jennifer, that I wanted to touch on was, is that, um, the foresight, uh, of the planning for the  Tzeachten First Nation. Um, a community should work without a car. And, um, and if you choose not to have a car and you choose to walk or bike to work, um, you need to, you need to have the access to work. You are maybe a welder. You may be have a, a fit, a pipe fitter or a mechanic or something like this. In yesterday’s development, uh, cities said, okay, well if it’s an industrial area, we need to have indu, industry or industrial land outside of the city. So you need to be able to, you, you need a car to go to work. Well,  Tzeachten and their foresight, um, have allotted areas where there are gonna be, uh, industrial lands where, you know, mechanics can, can work, fabrication factories and stuff like this.

[00:09:30] And if I live in Andmar, um, and I, and I work at one of these places at a warehouse, I can get on my bike or walk the path to industry. I don’t need that car. So my, I’ve, I’ve chosen not to use a car to, to save energy, to save the world. I can actually walk. And  Tzeachten has, within their, within their planning has, has, has figured out that this is the best way, that this is what cities are looking for and this is how society can make these choices, can can say, hey, you know what, I, I don’t need a second car because I can drop my child off at daycare. I can walk there, I don’t need a car. And from there, I can walk to, to my work at, at, uh, at a, at a factory or a mechanics or, or, or whatever. I don’t need that car, I don’t need the insurance, I don’t need the, uh, the gas bills. And that’s how communities now, smart communities are, are, are able to entice people. Because, because it’s there, all there within a work, uh, within a walking 15 minute area. 

[00:10:36] Jennifer-Lee: But that being said, because some people are listening to this, so they’re probably like, don’t get rid of my car. It doesn’t mean that you can’t have a car to like do road trips or like go explore the rest of the Lower Mainland. It just, the idea is that you should be able to walk around and do everything you can do during the week from your home. But then if you wanna take the car out and come into Vancouver, you’re not penalizing everybody being like, oh, you’re bad having a car. 

[00:11:01] Mark Perry: No, exactly. I think the thing is, is that it’s all about choices and it’s about expenses too. And I think, uh, the, the younger generation that’s coming is forsaking the $600 a month insurance and, and, and car bill so that they can, they can have an EVO vehicle when they want to go to, to a show in Vancouver and, and rent it. And they, and it doesn’t, it’s not a drain on them. It’s by choice that they don’t want to have a vehicle. And because it’s by choice, they want to live in an area where they can walk to work, where they can transit to work, where the grocery stores are, be, uh, below them. They don’t want to be out in the in, in the burbs any longer. They want to be actually within the city and. And our, our forecast show, um, that 80% of the population is gonna move to the city over the next 20 years. So I, we need to design for that. 

[00:11:53] Jennifer-Lee: Are you trying to take people’s cars away from them? 

[00:11:56] Chief Derek Epp: Yeah. That’s the goal. No, I, no, Mark’s right. It’s, it’s really a choice, right? And if you have the choice to do, to do that, if, if that’s your choice to own a car, then I mean, I, I, I’ll probably never not own a car. I got 3 young kids. I gotta get them around and maybe when I’m a bit older, I can move into one of Mark’s developments and be able to, to have that balance as well. But, uh, but he’s right. Like I, I, you know, even personally, I live down the road, uh, from this development. Um, I won’t be right in it, but I’ll be close enough where I can hop on the bike with the kids or even walk, uh, with the kiddos and, and get there and go experience some good restaurants, some good, uh, good coffee shops and, and really be able to even grocery shop and come home and, and, you know. And, and have that ability to get out, live a bit more of a healthy, active lifestyle and be able to, to park the car when I get home from work and leave it. And that’s really like what Mark said is a lot of it is that connectivity that we’re really working on, that we have been working on, uh, over the last, you know, decade or so.

[00:12:50] And, and using some of those tax revenues that we get to generate, uh, to reinvest in, in ensuring that we’re creating these, this walkability, bikeability, and safety ne2rk that, uh, creates this environment that not only for Andmar, but beyond that. But what really is, enabled this type of approach is Andmar. Without Andmar, we wouldn’t have, um, the drive for people to actually leave the vehicles and bike and walk and, and be active to get to a place like Andmar. So this is really, I I mentioned it before, it’s really like a culmination of kind of this Sardis central area that we’re, we’re after in here. And, um, and it’s, and it really, Andmar will provide that for a couple thousand residents that are surrounding the Andmar development, and that’s the reality of, of the location that Andmar is in. 

[00:13:38] Jennifer-Lee: Well, that’s the one thing that I wanted to touch upon is the infrastructure, because this is a great theory for everybody, but if you don’t have things in place like EVO or different car shares or Modo or, you know, bike lanes or, or coffee shops or any of that stuff there, um, it’s not gonna happen. So what are you guys planning for infrastructure or transit? Because I think a lot of people have misconception about Chilliwack that there’s probably no transit, which I know isn’t true, but, uh, I think a lot of people just don’t, don’t know what you guys are putting in. 

[00:14:10] Chief Derek Epp: Yeah, there’s a lot of, um, a lot going on. Like in transit actually, one of the main transit lines does in fact go right by and more in connects right into Andmar as, as Mark was saying. So at transit is not an issue. We have Uber now in town as well. Um, which is a big thing for Chilliwack to have. We’ve had it for maybe six months to a year. Um, and, but what some of the infrastructure that we’ve been doing is, is the road connectivity, is the walkability, the pathways. So we’re very strategic, you know, one of the main roads that Andmar is connected to, uh, 3, 4 years ago we did a major upgrade on the road to, to twin the, the lanes. It’s 4 lanes with the fifth turning lane in the middle, uh, you know, proper bike lanes, sidewalks, and we’ll be looking to do the same and some new road connectivity plans that we’re doing that, as Mark said, is going, going to connect to more industry, um, going to connect to more of the, uh, workability that  Tzeachten can offer as well.

[00:15:01] So for the infrastructure, it’s something that I mentioned on previous podcasts as well, is like First Nations communities have had to catch up in infrastructure because for far too long, we were left behind when it came to simple things. Like I mentioned, was sidewalks, lighting for safety for when you’re walking at night. Um, uh, crosswalks for safety as well. Those are things that I’m not kidding, I had to fight for in my first, uh, year or 2 as, as Chief, and this is, you know, 9 years ago, I had to fight to get a crosswalk in for the safety of not only my members, but for the safety of, of the community as well. So now we’ve been able to do that, close our own infrastructure, infrastructure gap on  Tzeachten. And actually I think we’re, we’re in, you know, with Andmar and coupling with some of the road connectivity plans that we have on the go, uh, we’re gonna have a very well connected community that supports this exact concept of, of, uh, this 15 minute style city. 

[00:15:53] Mark Perry: Yeah, touching on that, I mean, really when you look at surrounding cities, you know, Chilliwack, um, Yarrow, Abbotsford, the planning was, you know, seventies planning. I mean, where do we put an industry? Oh, we put it 5 miles outta town so nobody gets bugged by it. Well, you know, how does somebody go to work if they don’t have a vehicle or they choose not to have a vehicle? Um, it, it just, it’s all about, uh, you know, energy and saving, saving fuel, saving, like why would I, why would, if I had a choice between the 2, the, uh, a, a job out of town by 5 miles and a job within that I can walk to within a city where, where am of course I’m gonna be within the city of Andmar and, and walk to work. Um, it just makes so much more, so much more sense. And that’s what new, new cities are looking for. 

[00:16:49] Jennifer-Lee: And sustainability. Like, I know, Mark, that is a big part of your passion for Andmar. Uh, the, speaking of infrastructure and sustainability, are you guys gonna have a lot of like, car chargers and promote, uh, electric cars as well if people do want to have a car? 

[00:17:04] Mark Perry: So every, every, uh, parking spot, um, below ground we’ll have, uh, a, the ability to have a charger there. So, and we’ll have fast chargers, um, in the, in the shopping area above ground. So go do your grocery shopping, get your car charged at the same time. Um, we really, and, and we’ll have some EVO cars there and we’ll have, have some, you know, bike shares and, so you, it’s, it’s, it’s not a necessity that you have to have a vehicle to live at Andmar. It’s, it’s almost the opposite. You, you have the ability to, to rent a car or to, you know, have an electric car and not worry about, you know, you don’t have to be going somewhere commercially, um, to charge your car and leave it overnight on a charger when you can actually have it within your, within your home city of Andmar. 

[00:17:58] Jennifer-Lee: That’s great because a lot of people wanna have electric cars, but again, there’s not the infrastructure to hold it. Uh, even a lot of newer apartment buildings that are being built all over the Lower Mainland, some of ’em don’t even have car charging, uh, so they’re having to be put in afterwards. So it the fact that you’re already thinking about that. 

[00:18:14] Mark Perry: Yeah. You know, I mean, as far as Andmar and I always as a, you know, as a real estate person, I always think, you know, if I’m a, if I’m a young couple or if I’m a purchaser, uh, where is the best resale value? Where is, where do I want, if I have, if I buy at Andmar, I know that there’s electrical chargers within the underground parking in my parking lot. Why would I buy anywhere else? You know? Um, and, and we for, again, for, and we’ll talk on future episodes about our floor plans and what, what, what makes them better than, uh, than the regular how, uh, apartment that’s, you know, 10 years old, older, um, as a buying public, you’re gonna say, hey, you know what? I can see all these pluses at Andmar. So my resale value is gonna be better. My, my, my value of holding a, a piece of property is much better compared to something that’s, you know, 5 years old and didn’t have any of these thoughts to it. 

[00:19:14] Jennifer-Lee: And what are some challenges of creating this kind of 15 minute style? Because obviously there’s always gonna be challenges when you are developing no matter what. 

[00:19:24] Mark Perry: You know, again, it’s, uh, infrastructure. Is the power there? Um, is, does BC Hydro have the amount of power that’s, that’s needed for car charges for 6 or 7 hundred units? Um, so infrastructure is the biggest thing. Um, of course, again, uh, finding a piece of property that is as, as great as Andmar. Um, you, as I mentioned before, in previous episodes, it’s, this is unheralded to be able to find 11 acres or 10 and a half acres together, um, all at once. So you can build a city with foresight and, um, with a futuristic, um, uh, theme to it. You couldn’t do that in Chilliwack or Abbotsford, because there’s no 11 acre piece of downtown city available, you’d have to take 10 years buying up single family residential lots and putting them all together. It would be a huge land assembly and it’d take 10 or so years. We, we were so, so lucky to have the ability to, it’s like all of us, there’s a, there’s a patch of land on Burrard and uh, um, you know, downtown and Robson and, and all of a sudden somebody says, hey, build the city that you want right in, right within here. You go, okay, great. What a fantastic ability and a list that can I do here. It’s, it’s unheard of really to have that, that amount of land in a city center. 

[00:20:55] Chief Derek Epp: You know, we’re just saying, and I, I kind of mentioned the, the, uh, previous podcast as well. We’re just lucky that, um, you know, we, we were able to go to a, a, you know, very transparent RFP process and be able to, um, have somebody like Mark come and explain this vision to our council and to our community and, and to really have the backing to go and do this. ‘Cause I, you know, I was a big believer in Mark’s vision, uh, in this, in Andmar and the development and, and what he was trying to achieve with this. And I’m just really grateful that, you know, our council, our community was able to, um, see that same vision that I think Mark and I both saw and really be able to realize the importance of, of a development like this and how it’s, um, really going to be a staple of, um, I think, you know, Mark and I will be able to look back and we’ll, we’ll be friends probably forever. We’ve been friends for a long time and be able to look back in, in 15 years and say, you know what? We did the right thing. And, and I think that’s something that I really am, uh, what I look for, what I strive for in this, in this role is that when I’m no longer doing this role that I can still drive through my community and say I’m proud of that. And I think that’s something that, uh, this project is, is really for me, something that I know that I’ll still, when I’m, uh, when I’m done this role of being able to, uh, drive around my community with my kiddos or, um, or grandkids one day that I’ll say that’s, that’s a, that’s a development that I think we, we we got right? 

[00:22:19] Jennifer-Lee: I think I have a suggestion for you to get rid of the car, you should get one of those big bikes, the electric bike with like the big things on the back and then just stick all the children in that. 

[00:22:27] Chief Derek Epp: So I do have like, so I could actually fit all 3 kids on my bike. I have the,

[00:22:31] Jennifer-Lee: Oh you do? Okay. 

[00:22:32] Chief Derek Epp: I have like the shotgun seat on the front for one of them, and then I got the double 2 lee trailer in the back that I can put them both in. So I got, I can get all 3 kids and go for a cruise. 

[00:22:41] Jennifer-Lee: There you go. You’re already living it. Um, for people that are listening to this that, uh, live in Chilliwack or live in a similar community that are maybe scared of developments like this coming in and kind of changing what they love about their community. What would you say to them? 

[00:22:58] Chief Derek Epp: \You know what, I, I, I think it’s, it’s part of the reality of creating affordability and also creating a mix of, uh, of a development. Because if you don’t want to live in Andmar, then so be it. But you know, we still have other developments surrounding Andmar that you can still enjoy all the benefits of Andmar. All the benefits of the commercial aspects and still live in a single family residential home across the street, or a townhouse across the street. Or you can start off in the condo and build equity and build that appreciation, that value, uh, in a, in residential, ’cause it’s, it’s really difficult to get in the market these days. And to be able to start in a development that, I think, if you’re able to get in early, um, in this development, you’re going to see your equity. Um, pay off in this style of development by the time this development is done. 

[00:23:47] Um, you know, I’m not gonna make any promises, but I could definitely see your, your equity growing substantially through this development, through the life of this development. And that’s something that I think if you’re a young, uh, individual or even somebody who is just trying to get in the market, this is the style of development that I think that you will, um, gain equity out of, and you’ll actually see a value that you, you’re not gonna get anywhere else in Chilliwack. And that’s something that, um, I think excites me. And, and it’s really, honestly, it’s the way of, the way of the future of the, of development, the way we have to try to meet the densification and ensure we’re doing the best to plan to, uh, meet the, the, meet the needs of the most people we can that wanna live in this city.

[00:24:26] Mark Perry: You know, Jen, just to, just to add on that, uh, you know, we’ve, we’ve thought and pre-planned and planned for, um, the, the people that want to be homeowners there and incredibly our median age of people that have, have already pre-purchased in our pre-sales is 28 years old. First time, first time apartment, first time condo. Um, they can buy from like a bachelor, uh, a bachelor suite that was $279,000 for, uh, the start of, of home ownership and can be all the way up, you know, to a 2 bedroom corner unit of 12 or 13 hundred square feet. Uh, it, it really has given first time buyers and, and the younger generation, the ability to be able to live within the hub of Chilliwack and Sardis and affordability. And that’s what makes, that’s what makes the city, that’s what makes life, is that you, you can get in and you can start and who, wherever you go after 5 years and married and kids or what have you, you started and then you got your foot, your footing at Andmar.

[00:25:39] Chief Derek Epp: And you can stay on Tzeachten, right from your first buy that’s all the way to your, your, your single family home or your town home, all the way to the gated community that Mark also owns. So you could do, you can do it all on Tzeachten. 

[00:25:52] Jennifer-Lee: There you go. I love it. That, that should be your guys’s new slogan.

[00:25:57] Chief Derek Epp: Right? Yeah, yeah. From from birth to death. No. Yeah. 

[00:26:00] Jennifer-Lee: Birth to death. Never leave, never leave. I like the fact that you said affordable, because I think that’s the worry when these developments come into any smaller community, that people worry that all of a sudden it’s gonna be crazy and they’re gonna be pushed out. Um, and so I’m glad that you guys are, you know, but no, it’s actually a way to get your foot in the door.

[00:26:23] Mark Perry: Yeah. It was conscientious. No, no community works unless it can be an all inclusive community. And that’s important that we have all ages, you know, our background, um, historical background for my partner Andrew and I as being retiree, uh, retiree developments. And, um, you know, through that you see the, the value of the, the life cycle. You know, kids, daycare, school, job. And, and then again to retire, retirement communities. We we’re gonna have some, you know, retiree 45 and over buildings within Andmar because those people don’t need to be ostracized and outside of the community of Andmar. It’s all part of enjoying life and being within a all inclusive, um, community. So, but you gotta start somewhere and to start somewhere and work and, and work and own within a development, uh, it can’t be any better than that. 

[00:27:20] Jennifer-Lee: Oh, you really are creating a cradle to grave than because you retirement, you’re creating,

[00:27:25] Chief Derek Epp: From the womb to the tomb, from the womb.

[00:27:27] Jennifer-Lee: Womb to the tomb. It’s just funny, I, I like this concept of 15 minute city. I don’t think it actually means 15 minutes. I think it just means a way of life. And so I just think it’s funny that a lot of people, and it’s not like in some other areas, it’s not even called 15 minute city, but it’s a similar idea. It’s just being able to work, live and play. But it’s funny that people were picking it apart online when I was looking at it and they’re like, oh, well transit takes more than 15 minutes. And I’m like, it’s not a literal thing. It’s just, you know, it’s a way of life. It’s not a literal, like 15 minutes. They’re not gonna be counting every single step.

[00:28:09] Mark Perry: No, no. 

[00:28:10] Chief Derek Epp: No, you’re right. It’s a way of life. It’s, it’s a sustainable way of life.  

[00:28:15] Jennifer-Lee: And I wish more people would adopt that. So that being said, um, if there’s a city around the world that you love that kind of encompasses that 15 minute vibe, what is it and what do you like about it? And what would you like to bring to the Andmar culture?

[00:28:31] Mark Perry: Well, myself personally, because you know, uh, it’s, I always think local. I mean, Vancouver is a, you know, you know, our, our, our theme, our motto, you know, um, Andmar, Chilliwack’s new Yaletown, uh, and where you are in South Granville, same kind of idea, but Yaletown, you know, signifies to me that I can live in the center of it all. I can go to the, uh, to the grocery store. Um, I can, I can walk to entertainment. It’s, it’s all there. So, um, you know, for close, firsthand, firsthand, uh, knowledge, it has to be Vancouver and, and Yaletown and, and, and these places. You know, the world’s a big place. And, you know, we can go to Seattle. Seattle has the same kind of idea as far as Yaletown. Um, but so, you know, London, Soho, all of these places. But we should take pride, pride in Andmar, Chilliwack’s new Yaletown. 

[00:29:27] Chief Derek Epp: Yeah. I think Yaletown, Granville, that kind of nails it on the local scale. And I was gonna say, you know, I’ve spent quite a bit of time in London the last few years and reminds like that Soho, Mayfair style of, of, of, you know, city. And then I’m also thinking, I just in Christchurch and New Zealand a while ago, and they, they rebuilt because of the flood, or sorry, because of the earthquakes, uh, about a, a, a decade ago. And they very strategically rebuilt in a way that almost meets the same kind of ideology. And has a lot of that ability to, if you live in the downtown corridor, uh, you have the ability to shop, work, live, uh, and just play and enjoy the, the city and not have to, to, to drive. And so that’s kind of also from a global scale to a really local scale. 

[00:30:09] Jennifer-Lee: Love it. I, I, I love London. I love the fact that you can walk everywhere. And you can walk for like hours and hours and it’s great. 

[00:30:16] Chief Derek Epp: You end up in a circle somehow too. I dunno. It’s weird. 

[00:30:19] Jennifer-Lee: And you feel so much healthier when you come back. You’re like, oh, I’ve walked so much, ’cause you burnt off all the calories that you’re eating. Awesome. Well thank you guys so much. We’re looking forward to this again, 15 city, minutes city is just kind of concept. There are people out there kind of trying to implement it. There’s I, I like everything. It’s controversial, but I think just the idea of like, we kind of, um, put together here for Andmar is that it’s just where you live, work, play, and uh, and enjoy life really. Because I think a lot of us don’t enjoy life, um, to the fullest ’cause we’re driving around for 3, 3 hours to go to work and, uh, we don’t need to do that. 

[00:31:00] Mark Perry: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:31:01] Jennifer-Lee: So thank you guys.

[00:31:02] Chief Derek Epp: Thank you.

[00:31:03] Mark Perry: Thank you. 

[00:31:05] Jennifer-Lee: Thank you for joining us on Behind the Design, from Yaletown to Andmar. We’ve explored the history, innovation, and sustainability that makes Andmar more than just a community. It’s a place where life, business, and connection thrive. If you’ve been inspired by this podcast, we’d love your support. Follow the podcast, rate it, and leave a review to help others discover what makes Andmar so special. Till next time.